What is involved in matching students with schools with Paul O’Shannassy

CW: Hi, parents. Choosing a school for your child is not an easy decision. When it’s a private education you’re thinking about, it can be a huge financial as well as emotional investment. Today, I’m chatting to Paul O’Shannassy from Regent Consulting. Paul is an education consultant who offers a very unique service. Paul helps match students to suitable private schools around Melbourne. Since starting his service over 15 years ago, Paul has helped over 800 families find the right private school for their child. So how does Paul’s education consulting work? How does he know so much about private schools? Let’s find out. Paul, welcome to the Melbourne Schools Podcast, and I have to say thank you for being a sponsor of the Melbourne Schools Project.

PO’S: Thank you, Crystal. No worries. It’s a pleasure.

CW: How are you?

PO’S: I’m good, thanks. Yes. Looking forward to this.

CW: Oh, that’s good. Shall we get in straight into it then?

PO’S: Yes, go for it.

CW: So, you offer a really unique service. How did you get into education consulting in the first place?

PO’S: So, I was a teacher at a number of private schools. I was a vice principal at one of the top sort of academic schools. I’m going back to sort of early 2000s, and everywhere I went socially, I just kept getting asked about schools. And I said to my wife at the time, I said, this is a big issue, you know, we couldn’t go to a dinner party or a function without getting bailed up usually by mothers, you know, oh, tell me about this, tell me about that. And so it got me thinking that, you know, this is a big decision for people financially. There’s a massive choice in Melbourne. It’s almost the private school capital of the Southern Hemisphere. And there’s why so many people, every time I step out the door asking me about it, you know, why aren’t they, they’re obviously not getting what they want, or they wouldn’t be doing that. So that’s where the genesis of the idea came from. I did a bit of homework, found out that this stuff did exist in the UK and in the US.

CW: Oh, okay.

PO’S: In one similar version. So I took quick full-time teaching, which was a big decision at the time with the family, and did emergency teaching for, you know, a good 18 months and worked in a lot of these schools. So a great way to get the knowledge. So a week here, a week there, you know, a couple of days. So I worked, besides the schools I’d worked in, I worked in a number of others, gathered a lot of information and then slowly started it off and trialed it with some families. And then it’s, you know, as you said, it’s been 15 years in the making. It didn’t, you know, it just didn’t take off in the first week. It took a lot of hard work. And you’ve got to constantly keep your knowledge updated. And so that’s the genesis of where it started and how it started. And it’s slowly, slowly built over the years.

CW: So that was 15 years ago when you first started. Have things changed a lot since then?

PO’S: Good question. Yeah, I think it’s even more competitive. I think there’s more publicity. The Internet, the forums, the social media, that’s changed the information feed. So even something like yours, where parents can go on and discuss and get real time sort of feedback about what’s going on at a various schools, that’s far more prevalent than it was. And well, it’s 2008 I started, so that’s, you know, what’s that, 16 years ago. So there wasn’t this media slash social media exposure then that there is now, where, and you only gotta pick up a paper every single day, I can guarantee you, there’s an article about a private school.

CW: Oh, really?

PO’S: You know, so they’ve become a big target. We’ve got, you know, a large Chinese and Indian population, which take the education very seriously, that are now coming through and using private ed, probably a bit more than 15 years ago. So that’s another change. And I suppose people are just a bit more savvy, you know, about being marketed to, I think, because they can get their information, in a variety of ways now, you know, and you’ve got NAPLAN, the publication of statistics that weren’t around 15 years ago. So there’s a lot more there. If you start to Google, you can find things out about schools. And ironically, that often confuses people more, but so that’s probably what’s changed. You know, the information, the exposure, and these forums and chat groups. And, you know, I get phone calls every day. I’ve heard this about a school. Where did you hear that? Oh, I was on a forum, or was it my mother’s group, and someone told me this, or… So that sort of stuff, you know, can gather its own momentum.

CW: I don’t know if it’s just because of my age and where I am in life, but I feel like everybody around me is always talking about schools. I mean, that is, other than probably like real estate, I reckon schools is what people in Melbourne talk about. I think people my age with little kids.

PO’S: Well, we operate in Sydney, you see that? And we say in Melbourne, the two things they ask you in Melbourne is, where do you go to school and who do you barrack for in the AFL?

CW: Well, I can’t talk about the second one too.

PO’S: Yeah. Well, my team is on the bottom at the moment, so I won’t say any more. But in Sydney, it’s, where do you live, right?

CW: Oh, really?

PO’S: And they have a lot more government selective schools, don’t forget, than we do. We’ve only got five and they’ve got 38 up there. So the private school market here is the big market. You know, the big branded schools internationally. Like I travel to Hong Kong, Singapore, quite a lot of places, run seminars. And the schools that are well known, you know, with the odd exception, are generally Melbourne schools.

CW: Really? Oh, that’s interesting.

PO’S: Geelong Grammar being the most famous.

CW: Really? Oh, that’s interesting. Internationally, maybe on the international stage.

PO’S: Hugely famous, and Timbertop is hugely famous.

CW: Oh, that’s interesting. I don’t feel like I hear much about it, maybe because I don’t know.

PO’S: No, it’s funny. You’re probably right. In Melbourne, it’s not.

CW: Yeah, no.

PO’S: Internationally, anywhere where Prince Charles went, and the Timbertop campus is pretty innovative, and it’s, what, 50, 60 years old now, and a lot of other schools have copied it in one version or another. So their brand is huge internationally.

CW: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So can you tell us a bit more about your actual work? Like, how do you do what you do?

PO’S: Yes. Good question. So people come to me with a variety of scenarios as you can imagine. Kids, they’ve just done nothing about it, and they’ve forgotten about it down to, we’ve done a heap about it, we’ve narrowed it down to two schools, they’ve done a lot of work, and can you help us decide between A and B?

CW: Yes.

b: Down to, we’ve just arrived in the country, or I grew up in Bairnsdale, my husband grew up in Hamilton, and we don’t know what we’re looking at. Down to, my kid’s got a learning issue, and I’m a bit worried about where the fit might be, that’s becoming more and more common, you know, with autism and ADHD. Down to, I want to leave because my kid’s getting bullied or we’re not fitting in, that’s sadly becoming more common. So the cases, you know, they come to you with three kids, one kid, they’ve been two years old, 12 years old, 17 years old. The whole scenario can vary. But, you know, the two parts to the service of the matching part where I’ve got questionnaires, my own process, I get them to fill in questionnaires for parents and for kids, find out as much as I can and sort of tick the box stuff, writing things, you know, like single-sex co-ed, different types of curriculums, etc. And then you look at reports, NAPLANs, any psychologists’ report, etc. Have a meeting with the parents and get as much info as you can, say, here’s my kids, here’s what we want and don’t want in a school. And that can be very specific things like religion or, you know, some people need a particular sport they want their kid to do, or they want the IB, they want a particular curriculum. So once we’ve done that, I then go away and come back to them with what I think are the best fits for what they told me. Some people say, oh, what’s a good school? It’s a wrong question. And what’s the best school? There is no best school. It’s what’s the best fit, right?

CW: Yes.

PO’S: So I’ll come back and say, right, according to everything you told me and everything I read, here are the three best options or whatever, how many, right? Now, we go through that in detail, and hopefully, for them, I can bring them under the waterline information, you know? So, you know, like I said, I deal with places where there’s bullying, I deal with places where the teachers are leaving, and that sort of info you’re not going to get from a website or, you know? And then from there, the second part of the service is advocacy, where I can help take up their case with the school. Now, that’s not always required, you know? Because I said, sometimes parents come to me, we’ll get our names down in six schools, we can’t decide, and they don’t need advocacy, right? Or they’re already in and they’re deciding, so it’s not always the case, but it is an imperfect science, I say to people. Yes. And I always say to them, I deal with the registrars and all sorts of people every day, and they’re often happier just to leave it to a more experienced person to try and negotiate that for them. All right. But that’s an imperfect science, but I won’t recommend things that are 100 to 1 shot to get into. I’ve already got an idea. But the value I find for people is the real, like I said, the under the waterline information, the culture stuff. Are kids leaving these schools? Are they happy? Are the teachers happy? All that sort of stuff. And plus the generic information. And I get time for people. That’s the other thing. Double professionals, double doctors, double lawyers, a lot of those sort of people that are working late at night. And so what’s my time worth to run around and investigate all this or listen to an expert? And even when they run around and investigate, they go to an open day and they get marketed to, right? Or they go on a website and everything looks fantastic.

CW: Yeah, of course it does.

PO’S: That’s it in a nutshell. It’s quite detailed. It’s quite comprehensive. You know, the relationship can go on for quite some time, you know, years in some cases, if we’re ongoing trying to get the kids in. Some of them are, you know, just a few weeks we go through, I write up the report, we sit and debrief. And so, yeah, and others just want one part of the service. Just, I just want you to advocate for me to try and get in here. Or I just want you to compare that school with that school. I don’t need the second part of your service.

CW: Okay.

PO’S: So, you know, and I’ll have their own thoughts because they’ve done their own investigating. So some of those are challenging because you get people, what did they say, a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, Crystal, you know, so that have done some homework. But, you know, like I said, I’m dealing with people that don’t even know anything. I wouldn’t even know what VCE stands for.

CW: Yes.

PO’S: It’s down to people that have done hours and hours and hours of homework. It depends on the situation. But the learning issue is now becoming the big ticket item where, you know, that’s another big change. I should have said that when you asked about changes. So many more of my families are presenting with kids with learning issues compared to 15 years ago.

CW: Learning issues as in?

PO’S: Mainly ADHD or autism. Now, I don’t know if it’s just more diagnosis or… It’s a bit like the peanut allergy. You know, I’m older than you, Crystal, but I didn’t know anyone at my school that had a peanut allergy.

CW: Do you know what? Neither did I. Neither did I.

PO’S: Yep. So I don’t know the reasons why. I’m not saying it’s not real. I read the reports. It’s real. I’m just saying it’s presenting a lot more, and schools need to be aware of that, and I’m not sure they are equipped to handle the upsurge in these issues.

CW: Yeah. No, I agree. I feel like neurodiversity is something of… Like it’s an issue of my daughter’s generation, not my generation. I don’t think I knew anyone who was neurodiverse when I went to school.

PO’S: No. And the only other thing I’d say is that the final important part of the process for me is I’m independent, so…

CW: Yes.

PO’S: And I stress this to people that I work for the families that hire me. I don’t work for the school, so I’m not trying to sell you a school. And that’s really important. I don’t get a kickback. I don’t get anything. I just bring well-matched people to the schools for free, right? I don’t ask anything other than cooperation. And the reason that’s so important is that they’re getting real advice. I’m not sending them somewhere that benefits me. And it also means I can tell them some not-so-good things about the schools, because I’m independent, right? And if I’m saying, hey, this school is fantastic for your son because the last 10 families I sent there that were like your son, it’s been fantastic. That’s real. So I’m not an education agent, and I take pride in stressing that where they are in arrangements with schools and they get X amount of money to send people there, usually from overseas.

CW: Oh, I see. So just to recap your process, so the families give you a brief, is that the first step?

PO’S: Well, the first thing they do is give me a brief about their situation. Yeah. I’ve got three kids, one’s got autism, we haven’t put our names down, we live in Bentley, we’ve just, my husband grew up in witchy proof. I get the whole picture of your scenario. My son’s really talented at maths, he’s the report. So get the scenario first. Then they start to talk about potential type of schools.

CW: Okay. And then you would also be asking for third-party reports, you were saying, like.

PO’S: Oh yeah. Yeah. I can’t, with all due respect, I can’t take parents’ word for it that their kid’s gifted. Or I’d have about 20 a day. Right?

CW: Yeah.

PO’S: And, you know, and it will affect the type of school I recommend, you know, that they will fit in or won’t fit into an academic, non-academic school, you know, and it will affect the efficacy process too. The schools want to see, oh, wow, look how well he did on these maths tests or whatever the case may be.

CW: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So when you say reports, it’s like academic reports, NAPLAN reports, any reports, any reports. Psychologist reports. Okay. So all that goes into your thinking.

PO’S: Because the psychologist reports often have a big summary at the end. Crystal needs an environment where there’s not too many girls she needs. So they’re professionals who assess them. And so obviously, the other important thing I didn’t mention is confidentiality, because parents are basically opening themselves completely up to me with all this stuff about their kids, right? So I’m fully aware that this is important. I’m not painting their fence or mowing their lawns. This is their children, right? So and they’re about to spend more money than on anything in their life, other than a house, I’d imagine, unless they’re driving a Maserati each. And people are about to spend $700,000, $900,000 comfortably. They’ve got two or three kids going from primary school.

CW: It’s crazy when you think about it.

PO’S: Well, it’s just reality. So I suppose I’m conscious of the responsibility and I don’t send around, I have a look at this kid’s psychologist report. How funny is that? It’s important people understand. Even when I meet other people, I say, I heard you had Crystal as a client. I’m not quite doctor client confidentiality, but I’m very conscious of, I don’t think people want me to tell other people about their kids’ issues, right? So people often ask me that, is it confidential? And then I keep the reports separate. I don’t know when I see them except me.

CW: Okay. That’s good to know. So you get a situation sort of analysis, then you get all the third party reports, and then you go away and have a think about it. Is that the next step?

PO’S: Pretty much, yeah. Sort of putting it together like a jigsaw, if you like. As I’m talking to them and meeting them and interviewing them, you’re getting a feel for where they will fit in as well as a family. As I said, having been an educator for so long and taught a lot of these schools, it helps enormously because you understand the culture. I’m still heavily involved in visiting and doing things at the school. The new head of school can find out about what his philosophy is and what direction he’s taking the school, and that sort of stuff. So you piece it together a bit like a jigsaw, I suppose is the best way to put it. But as I’m speaking to them, you are formulating schools in your head just from experience.

CW: Do you always meet the kids?

PO’S: No, a lot of the time, no. Right.

CW: Okay.

PO’S: Well, what’s the seven-year-old going to contribute to me? I mean, sometimes the older ones, if they’re there, you meet them. We’re doing a lot on Zoom since COVID. Most people are happy to do Zoom. You got to have parents, that’s usually in the evening when parents are home, it suits everyone.

CW: Yes.

PO’S: So I don’t meet people like I used to.

CW: Okay. You meet them on video.

PO’S: Well, it suits the family usually. Kids are in bed and then we- and I’ve got a lot of international, so I’m up late doing reports from Singapore or UK or these things. Often, most of the work is done. I’m not a morning person, Crystal, because I’m usually up doing something. And once you have these things, it’s hard to wind down and go straight to sleep, so I’ve got notes to write. But if people say, oh, but don’t we meet? We meet. That’s fine. I’ve got no issue with that.

CW: Yeah. So I can imagine a lot of your clients would be from overseas because from what I understand, like just reading the posts in the group, it’s so overwhelming for somebody coming from overseas or interstate to come into Melbourne not knowing anything about schools or not knowing even the direction of where the schools are. It must be so overwhelming for them to come in to a situation like that.

PO’S: Yes. I think about 30 percent of the business would be international slash interstate slash non-Melbourne.

CW: Oh, really? 30? I would have thought it was more.

PO’S: No, no, no. Most of the work is local.

CW: Really? Okay.

PO’S: I want to say local. They might have been here 10, 15 years, who knows, right? But I dealt with an overseas family last night on a call, and literally, you forget they don’t know anything. You don’t know any of the locations of the school and train stations. That process becomes very detailed for them. If we live here, how can we get there? What does APS mean? What’s VCE? There’s all these acronyms in the education that don’t know what they mean. So I was liking it to say, well, let’s dump you in the middle of the Netherlands and find a school, the middle of the US or dump me in the middle of China and say, go find a school. Imagine it.

CW: Yeah. Even being born and bred in Melbourne, I went to school myself in Melbourne. I find it really overwhelming. I find it really overwhelming thinking about schools and just knowing anything from the inside of schools. I know a little bit about what people might tell me and things that you hear on the grapevine, but actually knowing the culture and the leadership or anything in detail, I find that really overwhelming too.

PO’S: And there’s all sorts of metrics too, Crystal, that we lead the school, the state in VCU, what do you mean you lead the state in what? Scores over 40, ATARs, average median study score. It depends which way you skin the cat. People want to put themselves. And so there’s a lot of information, people don’t even know what’s an ATAR, when they shut the door and they engage, they start asking all these questions they’ve been dying to ask, you know? And I’ve got my own tables of statistics and everything going over 10 years, and that’s the other advantage, that I’m not going to push a case, I’m going to say, well, here are the facts. And keep in mind, this school doesn’t entrance exam, keep in mind, this school has the IB and that school doesn’t, and stuff that you won’t normally get explained to you. Because, you know, they say lies, damn lies, and statistics. You can make them, you know, so I went to a place last year, I was just walking around, because sometimes international families want me to come with them, because obviously they don’t, it’s overwhelming being in the school, and what they’re looking at. And it was a bit of an open morning, and one of the signs is, oh, leading girls school in the state, I’m thinking, they’re going, no, you’re not, you know, and I’m sort of asking them by what parameter it was, and it was all a bit shaky between you and me. So, you just got to be careful. But the culture and the fitting in stuff is becoming more and more important. The bullying is becoming quite sophisticated with online stuff. That’s another thing that’s changed over the years. A lot more Instagram, and this stuff wasn’t around 50 years ago. If it was, it wasn’t very prevalent. And now, kids are being bullied online, and someone goes to a party and takes a photo, and the other girl didn’t know about it, et cetera, et cetera. That stuff, I get across my desk quite a bit as well.

CW: The issues with bullying. So, kids wanting to get out of schools because of the bullying?

PO’S: Correct, yeah. They get a group against them. I said girls, I shouldn’t just say girls. It could be girls or boys. And they get overwhelmed, and they just want an environment where it’s not like that. So, I’m sure that went on 30 years ago, but it’s in a different form now, because it’s a bit more sophisticated being online. It’s a bit more subtle, you know?

CW: Yeah, and inescapable.

PO’S: There’s a picture of everyone at a party, and Crystal didn’t get invited, and Crystal gets to read the picture and says, oh, do you know what I mean?

CW: Crystal’s very sad about that.

PO’S: 30 years ago, you had to actually have the photos in a little wallet and show someone, didn’t you?

CW: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, inescapable these days with the internet, I’ve heard, with some bullying issues, which is terrifying.

PO’S: That is becoming a key issue, right? So bullying is everywhere. As soon as you get more than 20 people together, it’s probably going to happen in any workplace, society, sporting club. Let’s not pretend that there’s no bullying at places. It’s about how did they react? How do they manage it? Do they stand up to them? Do they have policies? Is it properly monitored? Are kids looked after? Do they carry through with those policies? It’s not a bully free zone. It doesn’t exist.

CW: Yes, that’s what I’m hearing as well. So back to your process. So you were saying, okay, so you go away and have a think about the schools, and then what happens afterwards? Do you come up with a report?

PO’S: Yes. I send them a written document. Depends on what service. I sort of have a bit of levels of service. Some people just want to hire you for a chat, but in the main, most people, I will write a written, I’ll come up with a summary of the, let’s say it’s three, four, depending on what they’ve told me, schools, and tailored to what they’ve said. It’s not just a summary of, you know, peninsular grammar, it’s a summary of why that’s a good fit for you. Right?

CW: Okay.

PO’S: So you said this on your criteria, the school does that. You said this, the school does that. That sort of scenario.

CW: Gotcha. And it’s aimed at narrowing their search and helping them make an informed decision. That’s what I said.

PO’S: I’m not making decisions. This is them. And I say I get parents to about 85%. And in the last 15%, there’s them going there and gut feel and parents’ intuition, whatever you want to call it. Because this is not a perfect science. It’s people and kids. But if I can get them to 85%, and even just perhaps reaffirm, yet the school is doing what they say they’re doing, or they’re trying to, or just even reassure them of that. And then the last 10% or 15%, because I’ve had people who had the meeting, had the discussion, gone through, identified school B is the one they love, done all this, they’ve gone there, come back, probably didn’t get a good feel. That’s fine. And that’s why you sort of got the last bits. They look around and they mightn’t see kids that are like their kids, or they didn’t feel comfortable as parents in the place, or whatever. Most of the time I get it right, Crystal, of course, but sometimes, but that’s okay. But so this is not a perfect science by any stretch. Or people wouldn’t be ringing me. It’s not like two plus two equals four. But I’m minimizing your chance of stuffing it up, is the way I say to them. And even just that ability to bounce things off. And often people will ring me a year later, two years later, well, quick question. That’s fine. I try to be their consultant for life, if you like. And this has happened at school. What do you think about this? And as long as it’s not 10 hours work for me, I’m happy to answer a question or… So, yeah, that’s the process. And, you know, as I said, people that are about to spend a huge amount of money, you know, see it as prudent. Anything else in your life, you’re about to spend that much money on, you’d get advice.

CW: Yeah. So I recently, well, not quite recently, used a buyer’s advocate to help me find a house. Your service sounds a bit like that. Would you say that that’s sort of similar to what you do? Kind of?

PO’S: Yeah, I suppose. I’d like to think mine’s a bit more, I was going to say sophisticated. You know, like, are they writing your lengthy reports comparing each house and their features? I’m not sure they do that, do they?

CW: I wouldn’t say lengthy reports. I mean, it is a bit more numbers driven.

PO’S: This is a bit more at the negotiation stage, a bit more of the advocacy stage. The advocacy stage is similar, I suppose, right? There’s similarities. Maybe. But yeah, there’s some similarities. Maybe I’m taking myself too seriously, Crystal. I just think it’s a bit more detailed and sophisticated. But hey, most people say, I wouldn’t hire a consultant to help me get a school. Fine. I wouldn’t hire someone to buy me a house. I wouldn’t do that. You did.

CW: I didn’t, right?

PO’S: Oh yeah, I did. And I don’t regret it at all. I think she did an amazing job. So, you know, I only need 1% of the market interested in what I do. And it’s a lot of people, right? You know, there’s probably, I don’t know how many people looking for private schools in Melbourne every year. 100,000 people. You know, I don’t know. You do the maths.

CW: I have no idea. Lots, it seems.

PO’S: And so you have 95% of people are comfortable. They don’t need you. They think they got it right. And that’s fine. This is for the people at the margins. And as you know, with the recent, how busy I’ve been, there’s a lot of them. And it’s quite satisfying, you know, when you get an outcome and you’ve helped them. And I just, like I said, I pride myself on independence and telling them the truth and trying genuinely to help them, you know, and it’s quite satisfying.

CW: I can imagine. And like from the people that I’ve heard that you have helped, people speak really highly of your service. I guess it’s like me speaking about my buyer’s advocate. Like I’m really happy with the service that she provided me. And I don’t think I would have been able to do the negotiation at the end on my own, because it was such a big thing. And, you know, how often do I buy a house? Like never, right? So, yeah, I’m really glad that I used her service. And I’m sure your clients are glad that they asked for your help as well.

PO’S: Yeah, I’m sure. So I do this every day, right? If, like, let’s say you’d look at schools like you’re doing now, or when you were looking for your daughter, you look for schools. Imagine you did it every day for 15 years. You think you’d get pretty good at it, wouldn’t you?

CW: You’d hope so. Can I ask about the advocacy work that you do? Can you tell me a bit about that?

PO’S: Well, it’s more about presenting a case as a third party to a school. Often, parents will ring or send an email at info at X, and they won’t get a response for four days, because a lot of the schools just don’t need your business. And they can get overwhelmed or disillusioned. And so I said, listen, I’ll handle it, because I’ve got relationships generally with the registrars, or it could be the head of the junior school, it could be a range of people. And it’s more just taking that stress off them of having to deal, you know, running into roadblocks and probably getting bad news, which is quite possible in the short run, you know. And even not being responded to a lot of the time. So, and again, 15 years of presenting a case, it’s much easier for a third party to say how wonderful you are and your kids are. And hopefully there’s a level of trust between me and the schools. And I say, I’ve met Crystal, met her daughter, great mum, and here’s the kid, here’s the reports, click on this. If you send that in, you look like a neurotic mother, right? Don’t take that the wrong way, Crystal. So I suppose it’s just that a bit like the buyer’s advocate, you know how to go about it, who to go to, when to go to them. And it’s not your kid, so I’m not emotionally involved in it. That’s the other thing. And I don’t blame people. People will ring me in tears, they’ll rue to me, they’ll tell me, oh, your son’s not going here. You know, you take it personally, of course you do. It’s your children. So yes, that’s, you know, it just takes, a people like you, you didn’t want to negotiate. People don’t want to be ringing schools, begging to get in. Oh, they don’t want to do that. Who wants to do that? I can tell you, it’s not fun.

CW: Do you help everyone that asks for your help? No. I imagine not everybody is a good case of advocacy.

PO’S: No. People come to me with mission impossible, get me into this school within six months, and it’s a boy, and it’s a boy school. And I just say, no, it’s just to me, it’s unethical to take money off people if you’ve really got no chance of helping them. I mean, you get the occasional person that will roll the dice anyway, you tell them, you’re 100 to one shot. All right, you want to try, and then I can sleep at night. I’ve told them, I’ll try. And occasionally, I’ve pulled a rabbit out of a hat, occasionally, but generally no. But if you don’t misrepresent yourself to people, there’s not a problem. You say, look, I reckon you’re 50-50 chance, you’re 70-30, you’re zero to 100. So plenty of jobs I just don’t take on, or just other ones where you can see a lot of complications. There might be a really bad marriage split up or things like that. I do do some divorce work too. I didn’t mention that, did I?

CW: No, no, you didn’t.

PO’S: So I do a number of those a year. I’m an expert witness for court cases where people are fighting over schools.

CW: Is that when they don’t agree on which schools the kids are going to go to?

PO’S: So I’ve done a number of those for the last few years and meet the parents, same thing, write a report, and then you come up with a conclusion. And then the only difference is they can call you to the witness box and get cross-examined. So that’s not fun.

CW: No. Well, I can imagine they’ll be really stressful for you.

PO’S: This stressful? I do charge a bit more for that, for that reason.

CW: Hmm, fair enough.

PO’S: But you see people at their worst, you know, they’re angry at each other. If they’re fighting about a school and they have to go to the point of getting me, it’s serious. And so, yeah, no, that’s very intense, serious work, but that’s another thing. Um, I can’t say I love that, because you always got to lose her in the outcome, you know?

CW: Yeah. So what do you think is the most important thing when you choose a school for your child, just in general?

PO’S: Oh, jeez, ask the tough questions, Crystal. Um, oh, the fit, you know, I mean, as broad as that answer as it sounds, the fit is the most important. So knowing your kids’ strengths and weaknesses, knowing their personality, doing what’s best for them, not what you want, you get a lot of people, they want them to go to the school, they want to be a mom or a dad at this school, or they’re an old collegian and they want them to go there. And, you know, your kicker will be completely different to you. You know, so having the courage to say, right, here’s my kid, here’s their strengths and weaknesses. I really want them to go to Geelong Grammar because I went there, but that’s not a good fit for him or he needs to go to. So that’s that can be hard for parents because they’re that’s where the bias, if you like, and someone like me can help because I don’t have those heartstrings pulling at me. So, you know, understanding your kid’s strengths and weaknesses and not, you know, I went to Geelong Grammar, just using Geelong as an example, by the way, I don’t take anything into that. You know, I went there, my cousin went there, my dad went there, and you’re going there, you know. You see that a lot and you see kids, and I’ve got to say often it’s for the parents, not for the kids. So most important thing is to understand your child’s strengths and weaknesses, and get a feel for the fit and the cultural and social fit. Facilities come and go, you know, they don’t necessarily make kids happy, you know that. Programs, culture, other kids make them happy. The nice oval and the nice music hall wears off after a week or two, if your kid’s out in the yard and there’s no one to play with.

CW: Oh, interesting.

PO’S: Often overlook that. And just you got to fit in as a family, you know, because those kids are going to be your kids’ friends. If they’re not on the same page as you value wise, you’ll start to worry when they’re 16 or 17 and going out, and you think, where are they? It’s 10.30 at night, you know. So getting that fit right, and having the courage to say, yeah, that’s best for my son or daughter. Not just because you went there or because it looks good. You know, in the social circles. And that might be a government school, you know, which a lot of people are now deciding with the school fees tipping up over 40,000, that, you know, there comes a tipping point for that.

CW: Do you find that people are moving towards a government school? I think there’s still plenty of time for private.

PO’S: I think they’re being considered more, yeah. I think the magical 40,000, I really think that’s, the school fees are inelastic by nature. They go up and up and up. It’s like petrol and cigarettes. People just keep buying them, right? But there is a breaking point. And I reckon when they say 40,000 for year seven, you know, the other thing I’m starting to see a little bit more now is people saying, I’m going to go seven, eight, nine to the government school and do 10, 11, and 12 at the private school. That sort of scenario.

CW: Oh, okay.

PO’S: And that saves half your fee. So yeah, I think there is a point. There’s some people that won’t care about the fees, because that’s not, you know, they’re wealthy enough, it doesn’t bother them. But there’s more and more people at the margin. You’ve now got interest rates and inflation that this generation of parents, a lot of them have never seen, hasn’t been around in this century. Suddenly, you know, what’s, what do you mean seven, eight percent interest rates? What do you mean inflation or whatever it is, you know? They’ve had 20 years of bliss in that area, right? So that changes, well, it changes your decisions, doesn’t it?

CW: Yeah, it’s not unlimited resources. Nobody has unlimited resources.

PO’S: There is, uh, there is, um, I think a little bit of a trend and it, yeah, that people are now, I’m getting a lot more questions about, well, what about the government school? You know, I wasn’t getting those three, four years ago.

CW: Oh, and but you don’t recommend government schools, like you don’t have an expertise in that area. Is that right? Or do you?

PO’S: I’m getting it. I mean, there’s one in every suburb, right? There’s just too many to get.

CW: Yeah.

PO’S: And you got to live in the zone. And so I’ve got better than average working knowledge of it. But it’s just not worth my time investing, learning about every government school. It’s just too big an undertaking. But yeah, there’ll be thousands. There’s a teacher crisis and shortage at the moment, and that’s not to be underestimated in terms of what’s happening. And I think sadly it’s affecting the government schools disproportionately, where teachers now got a choice. They got the upper hand where they work, you know? And they’re choosing places that get more holidays and pay you a bit more. So there’s a real challenge going on with this teacher crisis. And I’m not quite sure that your average punter’s got their head around how bad it is, because it’s moved five meters outside of the Melbourne metropolitan area, and it’s a disaster, you know? I’ve done a bit of traveling up through the state, in the last 12 months, and some of the rural schools are just in real strife. You know, can’t offer subjects, can’t have staff classes. And it’s a whole debate we could have for another podcast about teachers and how they’re seen and why no one wants to do it. But I’ve got a 23-year-old, not one of his friends, not one. Talk, want to be teachers, talk about it. Back when I was 23, it was a respected career path to take, you know? So that is having an impact and more than people know. And it is even impacting some of the good private schools that can’t get teachers in certain areas. So they just got to take what they can get.

CW: Yeah, no, it’s scary, scary times for parents, because I feel like that it’s not immediately obvious, like who it impacts and how it impacts the system.

PO’S: Exactly, exactly.

CW: I don’t feel like I would know if there was a teacher shortage in my school.

PO’S: Well, I know private schools with big fees that don’t offer subjects as they can’t get the teacher. I know, because I’ve had principals tell me. And we’re just not offering accounting this year. They can’t get anyone, just to use that as an example. So it’s only a matter of time. And as I said, I think it’s a complicated issue, but every time you open the paper and there’s a negative story about schools and teachers, why would you want to go to that profession? You know, reading what you’re reading the paper, you know? So and you’ve now got parents, you know, and very demanding and smaller families, so they’ve got more time on their hands. And you know, it’s a whole range of issues.

CW: Yeah, yeah. No, I have some teacher friends who I chat to about this. And yeah, one of my teacher’s friends who taught primary school has recently quit her job because it was just so hard. Every day was so difficult facing the kids with behavioural issues. And admin work, I think, was another thing. A lot of paperwork that she had to do. And she just felt like she’s the loveliest person and has the real heart to be a teacher. But she just could not continue, which I think is a huge pity, a huge loss to the industry.

PO’S: Yeah. That will impact. And it is impacting. And as you say, very good point you made. It’s not immediately obvious. But it will be soon.

CW: Well, Paul, I think we’ve covered a lot of things about what you do. And I’m really grateful to you talking to me about your service because I was actually really interested because I, in fact, when I was young, when I was about 10 years old, my parents used a service like yours. And they, yeah, yeah, I don’t know how they knew to find an education consultant because even now, like, I mean, you’re probably the only person that I know who does this. They used a man named John Cheetham. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of him.

PO’S: Yeah, I have, yeah.

CW: Ah, well, he was doing what you were doing, I think, back all the way back then. And my parents got him to recommend the schools for me and my brother. And we ended up going to those schools. And my parents were migrants. They came from Malaysia. So they were in that category that, I mean, they didn’t really know which school or what each school offered. So that’s why they used it as a consulting service, which is why I was interested in having a chat to you and also, yeah, getting in contact with you to become a sponsor. Because I think it’s such a valuable service, to be quite honest, and a service that people don’t really know exists.

PO’S: Well, they know that it’s getting out there with your forum. Let me tell you, Crystal.

CW: I’m glad. I’m glad. Is there anything that I haven’t asked you that you would like to talk about?

PO’S: Not really, no. I think you’ve been very thorough, and yeah, I just want to stress to people, if they think they need help, just reach out, send me a private message on the chat there, and I can see whether it’s a good fit for each other or not. Yeah, just be fully aware of the investment you’re about, the amount of money you’re about to spend.

CW: Good point. I will also say your web address so that they can have a look at your website and find out more information. So it’s www.regentconsulting.com.au, isn’t it?

PO’S: Correct. Yes.

CW: All right. Thank you, Paul. Thank you so much for your time.

PO’S: It’s a pleasure.

CW: I will talk to you again soon.

PO’S: Thank you.

CW: Thank you.

CW: Thanks for joining me on this podcast. Remember that the content that you hear on this podcast is of a general nature and should not be used to make any decisions about schools or anything else. If you want to learn more about schools in Melbourne, make sure you visit the website www.melbourneschools.com.au. You can also join thousands of other parents in our community at Melbourne Schools Discussion Group on Facebook. See you there!