I encourage you to personally tour the school and meet the educators and students, form your own opinion and leave a comment here.
Best of luck with your search for the perfect school!
PODCAST EPISODE 7
What to look for when choosing a primary school with Kasey Easdown
NOVEMBER 1 2024
EPISODE DESCRIPTION
Kasey is the principal of a small Catholic primary school as well as a parent of a primary school student. In this episode she gives parents some tips on what to look for when choosing a primary school for their child.
YOU CAN ALSO LISTEN ON THE FOLLOWING PLATFORMS
WATCH THE FULL VIDEO HERE
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Crystal: Hi parents, one of the questions that comes up again and again in our Facebook group, Melbourne Schools Discussion Group, is what should I look for when choosing a school? It’s a good question that different people answer differently depending on what you value. Today, I have a special guest, Kasey Down, with me to help answer this question. Kasey is the principal of a small Catholic school in Melbourne East. She has 20 years of teaching experience in primary schools and was a finalist for the Teacher of the Year award. Hello, Kasey.
Kasey: Hi, how are you?
Crystal: Good, good. Thank you for joining me.
Kasey: Thank you for having me.
Crystal: Before we jump into what parents should look for in a school, I’d love to know a bit more about you and your role as principal because I think you’re fairly new as a principal, is that right?
Kasey: Yeah, that’s right. So, um, I started my teaching after I finished university and, um, within a couple of years, I sort of found myself more in a leadership role and mentoring other teachers. Um, and then I’ve had experience in all leadership roles, until I became deputy at this school, and then, um, last year I was acting and, you know, became principal in about October last year. So I’ve been there almost two years.
Crystal: Oh, almost two years?
Kasey: Almost two, with the year of acting.
Crystal: Oh, I see, I see. Okay, is it a very different role from being a teacher, do you think?
Kasey: It is different, yeah. I see that you’re still helping and working with the families and the children, but more in an indirect capacity. So it’s more around the well-being support and around guiding the teaching and learning to ensure that it’s really targeted towards the children. But, you know, with that less hands-on. I do make sure I’m in the classrooms every day because I miss that, but it’s a less hands-on role, and more of that overseer and working with the staff as a team, rather than the children.
Crystal: Ah, okay, but you do tend to go into the classrooms to hang out with the kids?
Kasey: Absolutely, it’s a priority. I feel as a principal, that’s how you know what’s happening in your school—being in there with the children, interacting with them, and that they see you as a person engaged in their learning and their well-being, and life, rather than just the person who sits in the office that you occasionally have to go and see if maybe you haven’t made the best choice or, you know, there’s things that need to happen. So, it also shows the teachers that you’re there to support them in the work that they do, and you can direct school improvement when you know what’s happening in the rooms face-to-face.
Crystal: That makes a lot of sense, yeah, because otherwise, how would you know what’s actually happening in the classrooms? And are you enjoying it so far?
Kasey: Love it, yeah, very much. When I started teaching, I was not expecting to be in this role. I love being with the kids every day, but, yeah, it just sort of—I followed my area of interest in the way I worked and absolutely love this. But it’s the community that makes where you work. You know, this is a job, but it becomes a career with the people that are surrounding you and working with you every day. And not only do I work with adults, but I get to work with kids and engage with them and their happy, interested nature, which is just so engaging and inspiring.
Crystal: No, it sounds like it suits you. I would love you to help us because, as I was saying before, a lot of parents are really confused about what to look for when they’re choosing a school, especially in, well, both primary and secondary actually. I’m one of those parents. I don’t know what to look for. When I was looking for a secondary school—I’m still looking for a secondary school actually—but I think what we’re going to talk about today is primary schools mainly, is that right?
Kasey: Yeah, well, I mean, before we sort of go into the questions, I think one of the things that we kind of, through our own personal experience, put this high value on secondary school, and how secondary school is, you know, where our child is going to get their ATAR and move on to their career. And I’ve had many conversations with friends. I’m a parent of a primary school student myself, and lots of my friends will go, “Oh, we’ll do all the overseas travel because once secondary school starts, that’s key.” However, prep to grade four is where the children are actually learning how to read, how to write, you know, all their maths facts and all those foundational skills that set them up to be lifelong learners.
Crystal: Mhm.
Kasey: And then once they sort of move into the secondary school, they’ve learned the foundations, and then they’re using them in scenarios, in real-life scenarios, and then making subject choices guided towards what their interests are and what their career path may be. But I think that trying to get that mindset in our heads that it’s really in those foundation years that the children are learning those skills, you can certainly, you know, catch them up or focus on certain areas, but if you miss core elements of learning, the further up the school they get, the harder it is to catch up to that point. So, you know, I think as much as secondary school is a key decision and, you know, that you very much have to consider your child and their learning and their interest areas, primary school is certainly an element too that I think should be strongly considered to create that well-being and that whole person feel about learning, and sort of setting themselves up for their life opportunities.
Crystal: Oh, I would totally agree with that. Especially because they’re so young when they go into primary school and they’re so impressionable, and they’re at their most vulnerable, I think, like I felt like when my daughter went to prep, she was only five. I’m like, “Gosh, I just feel like, you know, she’s so tiny, how can I send her off to school?”
Kasey: Exactly. And, you know, certainly in that prep and grade one, the children in school are spending more awake hours with their teachers and their peers than they are with their parents during the week, and that’s a huge thing for a family to hand their, essentially their babies, you know, just post-toddlers, over. You know, so you want to have that trust in that connection and know that your child’s in that safe place and they’re being looked after when you can’t be with them to look after and nurture them yourselves. And it is a long school day, so they do need to be in a place where you know that they’re safe and cared for and looked after.
Crystal: Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. The only reason I said that I’m looking for a secondary school is because I actually didn’t have the opportunity to look for a primary school. My daughter was five when COVID hit.
Kasey: Yeah, yeah.
Crystal: So we didn’t actually get to tour any primary schools or meet any of the teachers or anything, and we had to pick a school. So that’s why I’m sort of hoping to make a more informed choice for secondary school. But yeah, I would totally agree with all of that for primary school, like that’s exactly what I would be looking for. But, yeah, that leads us straight into the topic. So, what do you think, I know we’ve got a few points to talk about, but what do you think would be the first thing that you would look for when choosing a primary school?
Kasey: I always say to families that you need to—you can do as much research as you want, but, you know, it’s very easy to make a sentence sound more engaging when it’s written down. But I encourage families to go into the school, and as they tour the school, watch the teachers and the children interact. See when the teacher is teaching and the children are working; is the teacher standing, observing, or are they down there with the children engaging one-on-one or in small group sessions? Are they roaming, are they redirecting other children? You know, are the kids smiling and are they happy, or, you know, is it a very silent, structured classroom? Because that caters for some children but not for others. So, you know, looking at how they interact, looking at how they communicate with the kids is a key. You know, does the principal, you know, is the principal doing a tour and are they talking to the children as well? Do they know them personally, or is it the deputy or teaching and learning leader who’s doing it? It really tells a story around the relationship that the kids and the teachers have with the whole school staff, and I think that gives a really good insight as to how the school functions.
Crystal: So when you say look for how the teachers are teaching, what would you be expecting, like what would you want to see?
Kasey: Well, we don’t have desks in our classroom. Some of the old ones do, like, as in teacher desks do for storage, but that’s it. I would like to be seeing the teacher working in a small group or one-on-one with a child. Potentially the learning support is there sort of supporting the rest of the children because it’s the teacher’s responsibility who has the most qualification to be working with the child who needs the most support in the classroom and the child who has the most learning. I’d like to be seeing that, you know, if the teacher is in the act of whole teaching instruction, that there’s full engagement from the children. They’re not just sitting there doing what is expected of them by listening, because you don’t know that they’re engaged in their learning. We need to see them interacting; they might be, you know, thumbs up or thumbs down if they agree with something. They might be participating, there might be full movement. But research is telling us that when the children are physically engaged in their learning and interacting, the learning is going into their long-term memory and they’re storing it. It’s not just going into their working memory and dropping off. You know, we’ve all sat in a classroom where the teacher’s gone on for 20, 25 minutes, and we’re looking out the window and thinking what we’re having for lunch. You know, children shouldn’t—a child’s focus capacity is about double their age. So for a prep child, you don’t want them sitting on the floor with that direct teaching much more than about 10 minutes if there isn’t that interaction of that either the coral response where all the children are responding, or they’re doing some physical movement around it or engaged by writing on their whiteboards at the same time so that they’re actively participating in the lesson.
Crystal: So what you don’t want to see is a teacher up there talking and the children sitting quietly and listening, is that what you’re saying?
Kasey: There’s elements of that, of course, for explicit instruction. But if you’re just sitting there listening and the teacher is just sitting there talking, there’s actually no engagement in the learning. You’re just being spoken to. And, you know, me as a learner, I know that if I just sit and listen, it’s very easy to tune out. You need to be drawn into the learning and have that conversation and have opportunities for participation, you know, other than just sitting on the floor and putting your hand up. Because we always know it’s going to be the same couple of kids who put their hand up, and the other ones who are maybe not as confident or who are maybe a little bit more reserved, they will find a way to avoid being engaged in the learning. They will sit behind someone, they will ask to go to the bathroom, they will find ways. Whereas what I’m liking to see is that the children, all of them, have the opportunity to participate in some way because that’s actually engaging their brain and engaging their learning. They’re taking it on board during that whole instruction. But once the children are back at their table, the teacher either redirecting a child or working with a child, or in a small group, is something that we want to see if they’re in the room. If the child’s in the room learning, the teacher should be in the act of teaching.
Crystal: And when you say actively learning, what does that actually look like when you look at the classroom?
Kasey: If they’re in whole class instruction, you know, where the teacher is sort of standing at the front of the room, things that we would see is, children might—I’m just looking over at my poster because I’ve got it all up there—there might be a coral response, so it might be, you know, multiplication is adding groups is like skip counting, for example. So I’d say, “Multiplication is,” and then the children would all respond with, “It is like skip counting,” or I’ll say, “Skip counting is like,” and they’ll say, “Multiplication is,” you know, “skip counting by,” whatever it might be. So that’s a coral response. It might be that, you know, I’m giving an opinion or I’m giving them a question and their thumbs up if it’s correct or they’re putting their thumb to the side if they’re not sure—that’s a good indicator too of ongoing assessment. Okay, those children have got it, those children haven’t, right? When I send them off to their task, these are the children I’m pulling to ensure that I’ve retaught that skill so that they’ve mastered it, so they can go off and practice and reinforce that skill themselves. So lots of movement, lots of pulling children in, things like you might say something and then say to the children, “Just have a quick turn and talk, talk to someone else about what we’ve just talked about, and then let’s come back to focus,” so that they’ve got different opportunities to engage and participate in the learning at the time, rather than just sitting and hearing without interacting in it. It just supports them in taking that information into their working memory and then further into their long term.
Crystal: Okay, and you were saying before that it’s important that the principal knows the kids. I know that there is a huge variation across schools in how much principals are involved just by chatting to friends and asking them, you know, what are their schools like. There’s a huge variation, like some schools will have principals that know all the kids and even know the families and the siblings and, you know, the younger siblings that haven’t even started at the school, and some will not even know any of the kids at school.
Kasey: Even—I actually had a conversation with a student who’s just started with us for that exact thing. She said, you know, everyone—in my own educational philosophy, I think it’s very strong for the principal to be engaged in the school. You know, certainly, we’ve got a lot of work to do, but that work can be done when the kids aren’t with us. You know, we’re here to educate children, and we’re also here to support the families on their educational journey and journey of the children. So, of course, if you’re in a school of 700, 1,000 kids, you’re not going to have that opportunity to be out and as present as much as, say, someone of a smaller school. And we are a little bit smaller, which allows me to do that. But no matter the size, I feel it’s important that the principal is interacting with the kids and the parents and that there’s an open-door policy and that the families can come and chat to the principal and see. You know, the buck stops with us and if we’re not the ones, you know, creating the environment that we want for our school, then, you know, that’s a bit upsetting for me. And of course, the deputies are there and they do phenomenal work, and they do a lot of that, but, you know, it is the principal who leads the school and, you know, in my opinion, the principal should be present with the children and the families.
Crystal: Do you stand at the gate when school starts, before and after school?
Kasey: I’m outside every single day.
Crystal: That’s nice.
Kasey: And I often have my phone on me because that’s the time where a parent will say, “Oh, my child just mentioned this,” or “I just forgot this.” So I’m constantly writing down notes so that we can follow it up. Of course, we redirect to the classroom teacher first; they’re the first point of call, but those little things are certainly what I think makes not just the learning but the community of a school. You know, families of a primary school are there for seven years. It needs to be a place where they feel welcome and feel like they’re known and valued as well, rather than just the drop-off and the pickup of the child. You know, seven years is a long time of a child’s life and the family needs to be part of that experience as well.
Crystal: I think that’s really nice that you’re there because I think it’s really difficult to approach somebody that you don’t know. You know, like if I’ve got a problem, I definitely would make an appointment to see the principal, but it would be really nice if I could just go, “Oh look, I mean they’re going to be there at the end of the day or the beginning of the day. It’s not such a big thing that I have to make an appointment for. Maybe we could just have a little chat.”
Kasey: Exactly, and it’s also much easier to engage in a more challenging conversation if you already have that relationship.
Crystal: Yes, yes, exactly.
Kasey: So, you know, I certainly don’t run a school where I want parents to think going to the principal for themselves is just as scary as for children. You know, I want everyone to know that, you know, we’re here for them. The teachers, of course, are there for the students in their classroom first, but we are a community and we’re all in it together.
Crystal: Okay, moving on to your next point, what would be something else that parents could look for in a school?
Kasey: I suppose following on from that is about the culture and the school environment. I think, you know, as I’ve been saying a lot, primary school—the kids are there with you a lot of the day. Secondary school, they’re off, they’re with different teachers, they’re in different areas, they may not see their teacher every day. Whereas primary school, they go to the same environment every day, they see the same teachers, they see teachers on yard duty. You know, and so you want a culture and an environment where they feel safe and included and valued as little people within our school. But also that the families feel they can come in and, like you were saying, ask the questions or, you know, just a quick, “Oh hey, how are you going?” You know, so that it creates an environment of welcome, so that when you, if you do need to have a challenging conversation, there’s a foundation there of understanding and respect for each other and welcome and inclusion to take away some of that worry if you do need to raise things that happen in the school. So I think, yeah, I think the culture and the culture starts from the moment you walk in the door or the moment you make a phone call. You know, the teachers are in the classrooms. I’m, you know, in the principal role, but the office manager is the person who you first engage with in a school. And if you’re not feeling welcome from the moment you make contact, then that sort of provides a bit of an alarm bell for me. So, you know, in any area of the school, we encourage, you know, people to say hi, people to, you know, open the door, people to say, you know, I’ve got toys in my office, you might see them behind me, you know, for the little toddlers come in and they come and get a sticker. You know, it just creates that environment where they’re allowed to be there too. It’s their school as well. They’re not there yet, but it’s their school as well. You know, and it’s a place that children want to be. You know, you’re at school for a very long time, you want to be able to want to be there and be happy to go. Because I always say if you don’t have the social-emotional balance and the happiness and feeling safe and included and valued, then you’re not going to learn no matter where you are. So, and, you know, the culture and the learning environment provides that opportunity for the kids.
Crystal: And do you think parents would be able to get a good sense of that by going on a tour?
Kasey: Yeah, very much. You know, I also think if you go on a tour, some of the bigger schools, they run tour times. Sometimes that’s great; other times, you get the best performance, you know, or you might get the tour with the person who’s available that day, or, you know, sometimes there are students, sometimes there aren’t students, you know, but it will provide a good feel for how the school works. But, you know, just as much as calling and saying, “Oh look, I can’t make that tour, you know, can I have a separate time?” That tells you a lot about a school. If you can’t make that time and they go, “Well look, the next tour is in four weeks, I’ll book you in for that,” you know, I think that tells a message too. You know, obviously bigger schools, you do have to time it, but when you do do tours and there’s a lot of people, you don’t really get that personal connection and that opportunity to really engage and talk to the people who are in the school and talking about the school. I think you need opportunities to be able to talk to the people who have the big impact on change, like the principal, like the teaching learning leader, like the classroom teachers when you walk in there. You know, I always say to the kids, you know, if you’re in between something and a family walks through, you know, feel free to say hi, but if you’re in the middle of learning, you know, you don’t have to stop and say hi, you keep going with your work and you get the opportunity to talk later. So, you know, I think a school tour gives you one aspect, but a private tour can give you something different.
Crystal: But also on the tours, I also think don’t just feel like you need to do one and you can’t go back. I think sometimes you go and you walk away with more questions than answers, especially at the start of your school looking journey. You know, and so I think it’s really important that you go, you walk away, and if you think, “Oh, I just need to see something,” or “I just need to ask something else,” you should feel welcome to be able to rebook another tour, make a phone call, and ask the question, and, you know, if the school is engaging in that and, “Of course, come back,” or “Yeah, I’ll put the principal on,” you know, that shows how much they’re going to take on and support you when you do maybe have challenges or have information about schooling. But if it’s like, “Oh, well, you know, our tours are really booked,” you know, that’s not really sort of creating that welcoming feel either. You know, the other thing on tours though is I would try not to do too many. Sometimes, you know, you want the best for your child and, you know, I thought being a principal and being a teacher for so long, it would be an easy thing for me to make a choice around the school that I sent my child to, and it wasn’t. I still found it challenging. Different schools offer different things, so, you know, but seven, eight, nine different schools, you’re going to walk away confused as to which one was which and which offered which, and, “Oh, that’s great, but this isn’t.” Sort of do your research, talk to some families, and then look at three or four maybe. Feel free to revisit again and sort of ask the questions that you maybe didn’t ask the last time or clarify what you need to clarify, and I think that sort of gives you a really good feel for where you’re sort of headed.
Crystal: Because, yeah, too many sort of… you’ll be confuddled.
Kasey: Oh, that’s funny that you say that. Have you done a lot of tours?
Crystal: I think 30 so far.
Kasey: Oh my goodness.
Crystal: And some schools I’ve done several times.
Kasey: Yeah, good.
Crystal: So I find it difficult to understand how somebody can tour a school or not even tour a school and make a decision. I find it difficult to, because there’s so many things that I want to know about a school. How can I get all the information, you know, just by one tour? I’ve been to, I am obviously have, you know, have some issues because I’ve toured one school four times and, yeah.
Kasey: But something’s bringing you back to that school.
Crystal: Yeah, yeah, obviously I’m very interested in that school. But I feel like I still have questions, like I still have questions and the more I learn about different schools by going on different tours, the more I go, “Oh, I didn’t actually ask that question of that school,” like I didn’t delve into, you know, I don’t know well-being or whatever of that school. So, yeah, I think it’s a bit late for me because I’ve done tons of school tours. I find them really fascinating though.
Kasey: Yeah, but if you’re narrow it down now, I bet you you could probably put it down to about three or four.
Crystal: Yeah, no I can, I can, but yeah, I do them, it’s like, it’s a little strange hobby of mine. I do them and I write about them and I find them really interesting because they’re so different, and you just would not know if you hadn’t, if I hadn’t done all those tours, like you just never would know what each school offers or what they feel like.
Kasey: Yeah, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. You can read their websites, you can read their reviews. Every school has to teach the same curriculum, but it’s always about how it’s embedded and the feel the school has, and you can’t get that anywhere else. But you can walk in and you can know straight away whether the feels right. And that, you know, leads towards that culture and school environment I was talking about.
Crystal: Yeah, but when you said you find it strange that some families, you know, don’t do tours, I think, you know, knowledge is power as well, and I think some families don’t realize that they have that option just because they live in a zoned school. You know, it doesn’t mean, you know, that that’s their only school of choice. You know, they can, you know, talk to, depending on where you are in Melbourne is depending on, you know, whether the Catholic schools are zoned or not, whether the state schools is zoned or not. But you know, I know that just because you’re in a zone school doesn’t mean that it’s just that one school. There might be three or four options.
Crystal: Really?
Kasey: Yeah, you just don’t feel that you have to go to that school. Just because that I would still recommend that, you know, you call around and ask the schools, you know, “Can you take people from outside of the zone? Do I need to be living in that zone?” You know, call the schools and ask the questions and if the schools are prepared to give you the answers, that tells you a lot about the school on offer. And if the schools aren’t, that also tells you a lot. I’ve been doing a lot of research lately of secondary schools, you know, zoned government schools and things like that because I’ve got a few families who are new to the country and they’re still learning about schooling, and so it’s providing me opportunities to learn about the schooling as well. So I am learning that, yeah, just because you’re in that zone doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed that one school. There’s a couple of, if one school’s full or things like that, there’s a couple of options. Sometimes they’re open to taking people, sometimes they’re not. Sometimes if you’re moving into the zone within that year, they’ll consider you, sometimes they won’t. So I think it’s worth calling the schools and asking the questions, and if you’re not getting great responses, I think that tells you a lot about the story of the school as well.
Crystal: I’ve got to say, it is very confusing as a parent, like what the rules are, like where you’re allowed to inquire or, because I heard that the education department is cracking down and making it really difficult for you to go to a school that’s outside your zone. So I’ve heard that it’s becoming a lot more strict these days. Is that right, or?
Kasey: Well, as I said, I’m not in the government system, so I can’t speak to that exactly, but I do know that I’ve made calls on behalf of families before and I’ve got a very strong sense of whether it’s a school that we should consider or not. I think it just gives you that indicator. Certainly, in areas where there’s younger families or it’s a growth area, they are tightening down on enrollments, certainly in government schools, and, you know, if you don’t have power bills or rental agreements signed, then you definitely do not get a place. But, you know, if you move into that zone, some schools then say, “Well, you’ve moved into the zone, but all our places are full, so there’s two other options within that zone.” So yeah, it’s—I still strongly believe no matter what, you call the school and you ask the question because we are here not only to educate children, but we are here to provide families with information. Many people haven’t engaged with a school since they left school themselves, and school has changed so much in the last—or since I started teaching, I think we’ve gone through like four curriculums or, you know, something like that where the maths and the English curriculum are being reviewed as we speak again. So, you know, things are always changing. So I think if you’re—you need to feel confident that you can engage with the enrollment officer and ask the questions, and you’re entitled to do that. You’re advocating for your child and you’re advocating for the best education for your child, so don’t feel hesitant that you shouldn’t contact or that you’re, you know, asking too many questions or you’re engaging with them too much because you’re the one, you’re the number one fan for your child, and you’re the one who is doing everything in your power to support your child and get them the best education and learning environment possible. And I’m very strong not just on the best education, but the learning environment. I think, and that probably moves to my next point on, you know, choosing a school. I think, you know, we do all have to teach the same curriculum, and different schools do it in different ways, you know. Phonics is rearing its head again. You know, Catholic Education, St. Max, we have a vision for instruction, and it’s a 2030 strategy and we’re looking at more explicit instruction, more revisiting of learning so that it is following that science of learning and going into the long-term memory and being retrieved and revisiting things so that it’s on a forgetting curve, and lots of schools do lots of things around research and science. But you know, if you don’t have an environment where you feel connected, where you feel safe, where you feel comfortable to be challenged and to challenge yourself academically and to say, “Hey, I’m struggling with this, can I have some help?” You’re not going to learn. You know, we can provide the learning, but if you’re not in that environment that supports your social emotional and your well-being just as much as your academic, we’re not going to get the best out of you. So I think the learning environment and the supports that are in the learning environment are just as important as the academics. You know, like and NAPAN tells part of a story, but it doesn’t tell the whole story. And I know families, you know, want to send their children to the schools that have the best NAPAN results and the best academics, but that very much is dependent upon, you know, the children in that group. It’s dependent upon the values that the schools put in, like it constant pressure of practice, practice, practice, NAPAN, NAPAN, that’s certainly improving one area of learning, but is it helping support the problem-solving skills, the proficiencies of all the other areas, the social and emotional capabilities? You know, when we go out into the world, we need all of those things in our tool belt as well, because we are teaching kids and, you know, young adults, we’re giving them the skills to know how to learn for life. You don’t leave secondary school or primary school knowing everything that you need to know forever, but you leave knowing how to find that information out. You know, and if you are, you know, a stressed-out kid because you’ve always been trying to get the best results, you know, if you go out into the world and all of a sudden you don’t have those supports around you to help you find the answers and find the solutions, then that’s a lot of pressure you’re going to be putting on yourself because you haven’t developed that social-emotional intelligence at the same time. So it is certainly a balancing act of providing them both, you know, opportunities for extension and opportunities for growth in their learning, but also supported by that well-being and social-emotional development as well.
Crystal: So when you say the social and emotional development, what would you be looking for when you go to a school? Like, how would you know that that’s being done well?
Kasey: I think there’s how the classroom’s set up. You know, are there supports in place to help a child? Are there visuals? Are there examples on the whiteboard or the pinboard that provide them with strategies to support them through problem-solving? You know, is there a culture where they feel comfortable going and asking a friend for help or going and asking the teacher for help? Have they been taught those things just as much as we’ve been teaching them to read and write? You know, every child in primary school is learning to develop and support and manage their emotions, and at times they’re not going to manage it. They might have had a big fight with their friend on the playground, their friend might have knocked their sandcastle over and they’ve wanted it for the next playtime. You know, these are the problems we’re dealing with on the yard, and if they come into their learning environment and they can’t, you know, move past that issue, you know, that can really affect their learning in that next point of time. So what do they have in the schools and what do they have in the classrooms to support that? Is there, you know, fidgets that help them focus and concentrate? Have they been taught strategies to calm themselves down so they have an opportunity to put themselves in a calm place in the classroom and still feel engaged and belonging to that classroom, given the opportunity to calm themselves down in their safe space, rather than removed from their own place because they can’t control their emotions? You know, and how does the teacher engage with them? Are they left alone and they’ve kind of just got to get it together? Has the teacher gone over, you know, “How are we going? What’s the problem here?” “You’re not ready to talk, that’s fine, I’m going to set a timer, I’ll come back to you in two minutes and we’ll have another conversation,” because you can’t talk to them when they’re heightened. If we’ve had a bad day, say, don’t come talk to us; we’re, you know, sitting down and scrolling on our phone or, you know, calling a friend to have a chat or go for a walk, whatever it might be. Kids need that as well. We can’t expect them to come in and function for a five-hour learning day if there is some other emotional problem that they’ve had. They can’t just switch that off. So is there support in the school and in the classroom to help them work through that and then learn to re-engage in their learning, rather than just, “You have to deal with that because now we’re moving on to maths”? You know, that’s a key thing that we need to do. They do it in kinder; they stop and they help the kids solve a problem in kinder before they expect them to join a group. You know, we can’t just—just because they’re at school—say, “Oh well, put that aside, deal with that next playtime, because we’re focused on this.”
Crystal: Do you find that there’s a huge variation in how schools teach these sorts of skills?
Kasey: Very much, very much. I think that comes down to the priorities of the school. It also comes down to the size of the school as well and, yeah, but I think the priorities is the key. Like, if they value themselves as an academic school, then that’s certainly what they’re driven by. I value this school as a whole child approach. Yeah, you need to certainly, you need the academics but you also need that emotional resilience to go with it. You know, so very much different schools run in different ways. You can get a feel for that by, you know, talking to them about their behavior management as well, you know, what their consequences are if there are behavioral—You know, we always say that children aren’t being naughty on purpose. They’re learning their boundaries, they’re figuring out what’s right and what’s wrong, and we need to support them with that. And usually, if there’s a problem in the classroom and they’re upset or they’re saying they can’t do this or they can’t do that, there’s usually a reason behind it and they’re usually avoiding something or trying to get something. They may be avoiding the work because it’s too challenging. So it’s really how does the school deal with that? How does the school engage with the child to say, “Okay, the actual problem here is not that they’re, you know, I don’t know, not following instructions. The problem is, hang on, this happens every time we do writing.” You know, how can we go about supporting that child in that? So it’s about having a team around the child—well-being, classroom teaching, learning, principal—that can discuss and identify that to support that child. You know, it’s just like, just because schools offer extension, children have a mental capacity at, you know, when they’re in primary school and a lot of the time to extend is not just to make it bigger numbers, but it’s to maybe go into problem-solving or design elements and kids don’t have the maturity to do that yet. You know, so we can’t just give them bigger numbers because that’s rote learning and that’s not actually using it in an everyday process. You know, we’ll extend them so it’s thinking about how to extend them as a person and provide them with those strategies alongside to support them to push themselves further as a learner.
Crystal: When you were talking about, I think you were talking about disengaged kids, like if there’s behavioral issues in the classroom, what would be the question that parents should ask and what should the answers be, sound like for a school that’s managing behavior well?
Kasey: Yeah, it would depend on the types of behaviors that they’ve got in a school, like, you know, neurodivergent children who are maybe on the autistic spectrum or the ADHD spectrum, quite often a lot of that isn’t that they’re not able to do their learning. It’s that they need the brain breaks or the movement breaks or those different visuals to support them in their learning. So it’s about, if my child’s got this, they don’t need someone to sit with them to do their learning, but they might need someone to engage them to get them started on a task, for example, or their organization skills. So, you know, how do you support a child, neurodivergent or neurotypical, to engage in their learning, and, you know, if they are upset, how do you deal with that?
Crystal: And what should the answer be though? Like, what are the—
Kasey: For me, it’s my strong belief that a child should never be removed and excluded from their peer group in their classroom unless it’s an unsafe issue. You know, if they’re so disregulated that they, you know, are throwing things or they’re becoming physical, of course, they need to move to keep the children safe. But if they are upset or, you know, just not having a great day, well then that’s for us to support them in the classroom as well because that is their safe place and that is their peers, and they’re the people they feel the most connected to. So, you know, seeing how you can, if a child is disregulated, how the school deals with that within the classroom setting and whether they are removed. Sometimes if a kid’s being physical and it’s because they’re upset about something, sometimes they just need to go for a run outside or hang on the monkey bars and it will just give them that break to readjust. You know, also if a child’s upset or angry over whatever the case might be, and children do get upset and angry, you know, if they’re yelling and screaming, that’s not the time to engage with them. You know, they’re not going to talk, they’re not going to tell you the problem. So we always say there’s no teachable moment in the moment. They need support. They need to know that someone’s there for them when they’re ready, and then it’s about engaging with them after. So really just saying to the school, you know, if a child does get upset or they are disregulated or there’s been a problem on the yard, how do you deal with it? How do you solve that issue? You know, are you going to call me? Are you not? These are the sorts of things that I would, you know, I would want to know what the school are going to do. Are they going to call me every five times, you know, because a parent might be dealing with that at home as well, and this is their break for them, you know, so having that conversation with the school and forming a response and a plan around the school and the parents and the child to help them with whatever they might need at the time.
Crystal: Okay.
Kasey: And it can change too.
Crystal: What’s that?
Kasey: Obviously, it can change as well, like, you know, when they first come, you know, they might be coming to school and they’re just learning a whole new routine, so they are disregulated and they are every time they get to a topic that’s hard finding ways to avoid that. Well then, that’s not just, “Oh well, you pull them out of the classroom during that session,” because then the child’s getting what they want. They’re not learning the strategies to deal with it. So you might, you know, put in a reward, or you might put in an adjustment so they might be doing less with a plan for them to do more, you know, and the teachers should be talking to the parents about that and getting them on board so that we’re all—you’re going to get the best out of a child when the parents and the teachers and the students are working together. You know, but then as they get older, you know, it might not be writing that’s the issue. It might be a peer issue. So then, you know, you would need to look at a different way to support that child and what that child’s looking for. And as they get older, they can engage more readily with suggestions as to how they can work through it as well. But I really think it’s about the school hearing the need of the child and not just putting them into the naughty category or the disengaged category. There’s usually a reason behind it, and I think if the school can get to that, that’s where you’re going to see the most change in a child. You know, and generally, there’s anxiety that goes with that, so, you know, that lessens it on the child as well, and it makes them feel safe, and then that leads to them being more academic and more engaged in their learning, so it’s a big cycle, one for the other.
Crystal: So it sounds like what you’re looking for is a school that is willing to be curious about the reasons and then also having some strategies about what to do about it rather than like a one-size-fits-all.
Kasey: Exactly, it’s not one-size-fits-all, exactly. And, you know, obviously in a smaller school that’s more easily done than in a bigger school, but I think if that’s the priority of the school they will, they find a way to do that. You know, so finding out what do they have, you know, is there a well-being leader, is there regular meetings, is there things, you know, I mean things like fidgets and wobble chairs, they’re good learning for all children. You know, you don’t have to have a diagnosis to use a wobble chair. You know, like I’m playing with a fidget now just, you know, it’s keeping me focused. See? You know, it just needs to be there for all children because it’s good learning for—and all adults.
Crystal: Yeah, yeah. Okay, how about we move on to the next strategy or the next question?
Kasey: So, I know I’ve done a lot of talking about the engagement and the well-being side. I think just to finish that off, you know, primary school is a place that these kids are for six years, seven years in primary school, six years in secondary school, and if these kids, they need to feel engaged, they need to feel that they have a voice in their school. It’s not like they’re coming here every day. That’s their responsibility, but you can make this place as good or as challenging as it can be. What things do the schools have in place, secondary or primary, that will engage my child and keep them, you know, focused? So are there student-driven initiatives, like is there a school representative council? Is there, you know, lunchtime clubs? Is there a student voice and student engagement? Like, we run a St. Vincent de Paul Mini Vin group, and I just contacted the local secondary school, and they came out. The girls in year 11 and 12 did a presentation with the kids, that gave them an opportunity to come out and talk to another school with an engagement that they had student voice and student engagement in. So, you know, what options, it’s not just about—for me, it’s not just about what extracurricular activities do the schools offer that parents have to pay for after school, it’s what do the kids do within their learning time and, you know, the time that they’re at school that engage them and give them a voice. Like we, for example, we’ve got a calm corner in every classroom in the school. And we’ve got one child who finds that the yard time a bit challenging, you know, there’s a lot of people out there, it’s not as structured. So that child had sort of said to us, “Do you think we could create a yard, a calm corner outside?” So that was a—that’s an easy done, yep, no problem, and that is used, one of the main areas, there’s blankets, there’s a tent, sometimes kids just take a book out there and read, you know, and that was just something that this child said, “Could we do?” And there was no reason not to. You know, it supports not only that child but others. You know, if the kids are—I’m just trying to think of something that they’ve asked recently—you know, but basically, do they feel like they have a voice towards learning? For example, you know, as they get older, some of those full participation strategies I was talking about, like the turn and talk or the whiteboards or the coral response, you know, for them saying, “Oh, we really like it when we do that,” and then you including that in their learning for them, they’re having a voice, they’re feeling like they’re having an impact in their education, and that goes far beyond them just coming to school 9 till 3:30. It supports their engagement, and it makes them feel connected to their learning environment. So that’s probably all I’ll go into on voice and engagement, but I think that’s a key element for them.
Crystal: I think so too. I think that’s actually really important for kids to learn early because as an adult, like, you want to feel like you’re able to influence your environment, and if you can learn that at school, that you have agency and that you can actually do things and create things and start things, I think that’s an invaluable lesson because I did not learn that until much later on.
Kasey: Yeah, absolutely, and of course, we’ve got the degrees and, you know, we’ve got the academic knowledge and then the behavior management side of things, but kids can bring a lot to that too. You know, even as simple as, you know, like the positive rewards that happen in the classroom, for example, you know, what do you want the reward to be? That’s them having some form of control over where they’re made to go. You know, as children, they legally have to be there, so, you know, if they can be part of that, it’s certainly a life lesson.
Crystal: Oh, definitely.
Kasey: They can learn, yeah, for sure.
Crystal: I have a story. One of my friends was telling me about her son’s school—he’s in primary school as well—and he was really into the Rubik’s Cube, and he was able to start a club at the school for Rubik’s Cube along with some of his mates from other years, and they stood up in assembly, and they announced it to the school, you know, the principal was in full support of that, and I thought, what an amazing lesson to learn in primary school, that you have control of your environment, that you can do things like that, like really influence your environment.
Kasey: Very much.
Crystal: Yeah, I love that story.
Kasey: Yeah, and you know, you know, school, of course, you’re there to learn academics, but you’re there to learn a lot more than academics. You have to learn to be a human as well, I think.
Crystal: Exactly.
Kasey: Yeah.
Crystal: And, you know, kids are finishing school and they’re so directed by teachers, and they’re so, so supported by teachers that they get out into the real world and they don’t know how to do all those other elements as well—always had someone guide and direct them. So we need to ensure that we’re creating that environment for them to do both.
Crystal: I agree with that 100%.
Kasey: Yeah.
Crystal: Anything else that you…?
Kasey: Well, I suppose I haven’t really talked about the teaching and learning.
Crystal: Let’s talk about that.
Kasey: Obviously, that’s a key part of what we’re there for, so may as well touch on that aspect of the teaching and learning. You know, I think lots of schools are trying different things in teaching and learning, and they’re using research and the science of learning that supports them in that, but I think, you know, what you’re looking for is, in my opinion, it’s not a secret what kids need to learn. Back when I was at primary school, it was you listened to the teacher, they gave you a worksheet, you did the worksheet, you got tick and crosses, and that was that. You know, kids need to know what they’re learning and how to achieve. So I think, in a teaching and learning focus, you know, the kids being told their learning intention, being told their success criteria and what they need to do to achieve that learning is really important. It comes back to that agency as well. But also checking in with the school on how they teach English, for example, you know, are they teaching core elements of spelling, grammar, reading, writing, phonics? Is it all separate? Is it all integrated? You know, are they teaching—are they providing opportunities that are needs-based, or are they just going off the curriculum? Just because a child’s in grade one or grade two doesn’t mean that that’s where they’re learning in the curriculum, you know? They shouldn’t just be taught that level because they’re in that classroom. So, you know, how do the teachers know where the child is and what they’re ready to learn next?
Crystal: So you’re talking about differentiation, is that?
Kasey: Yeah, differentiation in the classroom. When you do the assessment, you might have three or four kids who are, who know it already, who know that element of the curriculum, let’s say the year two curriculum, so don’t reteach it, you know, they’re ready to move to the next thing. But you have to know your kids and you have to know where they’re at with their learning to make sure that you’re teaching to their current point of need. There are some children who come in that are not ready to learn that yet, so if you haven’t given them the foundations and the skills before that point, even if they learn it, it’s not going to be maintained in their long-term memory. So it’s really important that you ensure that you maybe revisit the skills prior, ensure that they’re embedded so that they can then take on that next level of learning. So asking the school, you know, how do they use assessment to teach? Does everyone get taught the same thing, or how do they differentiate in the classroom? I think that’s a really important question, because a child who is bored is going to be disengaged, a child who, if it’s above their head, is going to be disengaged as well. So it’s really important that you target to their need. The other thing is, if a child needs support or extension, how is that enacted, you know? Because as they get older, up the school, the kids don’t like to be pulled out for special intervention. You know, they want to be part with their peers. So is that a possibility, you know, is, can the support work within the classroom, you know, just doing extra homework or going off to Kumon is not going to boost the skills necessarily. Of course, there’s certain elements for that, and for some kids, that’s exactly what they need, but for others, they may never get to that actual level of curriculum, so we need to teach to where they’re at and how they’re supported to access that curriculum within the mainstream classroom. Just like extension, like I said before, it’s not just giving them bigger numbers, you know, how are you extending my child within the classroom so that they’re not just doing the thing that they already know how to do?
Crystal: Is extension common across all schools? Like, do all schools do it, or not really?
Kasey: I think that’s a challenging question to answer. Some schools offer extension classes, some don’t. We try and look more towards like open-ended or using their assessment to—and then there’s lessons guided to that point of assessment. We try and make sure that one of the teacher groups during that unit or during that week is aimed at the children who do need the extension within that, but that is very much based on schools. They may not call it extension. I just think if, when you’re looking for a school, asking how do you support the children who need a bit of extra support or the children who are already at that curriculum, how do you move them to the next point of their learning rather than holding them back until they get to that next year?
Crystal: Okay, question, right? So that’s the question, and then the answer should be they make some sort of effort into absolutely moving them up?
Kasey: Yeah, moving them up. You know, some schools that do the learning intentions and success criteria, the success criteria is often created with an entry point for every child but also an exit point that is the higher level, so that if, you know, they’ve always got something that they’re moving towards and something that’s furthering their learning. So just sort of asking about those questions and how do you make sure that kids at either end are being catered for, not just, you know, that middle point of that classroom group.
Crystal: And is that across all subjects? Because I know extension is common in, say, like literacy and numeracy, but what about extension in science or STEM or that sort of thing?
Kasey: I would think probably not. I think, you know, it’s probably those core subjects that even people are wanting, you know, the extension or the intervention in, and then the others probably is less so. But it’s certainly a question you can ask when doing the school. But for me, it’s more English and maths, and then the other areas are sort of—they’re certainly assessed and targeted to what the kids know, but I don’t know if there would be elements of extension across as a common thread across schools.
Crystal: Yeah, yeah, okay, makes sense. Was there anything else that you think is important?
Kasey: Yeah, I suppose, you know, the last thing is I think size does matter. I think children, like you said, you know, your child started school and they’re five, they’re little, you know, they get thrown into a classroom of 25, 26 kids, you know. We don’t want them to be lost amongst that. You know, certainly in that prep to grade two level, it’s really important that they are seen, and that is where they’re learning, and that is where you’re helping them, you know, get out of that little, you know, they’re going into middle childhood, they’re learning about themselves, they’re learning how to be independent, how to be a learner. They need to be seen and heard and valued, and I think that they can get lost in that. Certainly asking why the class sizes or the class structure is the way it is. Different schools have different class structures and different—some schools have a prep one, some have straight grades, some have what we would call old school composite grades. There are strategic reasons as to why some schools do things like that, and it’s worth asking the question. I don’t think it’s something that families should say, “Oh, they’re composite, I’m not going there,” you know, or “They’re straight classes, I’m not going there,” because I think it brings a lot. But it’s worth asking the school why it is. For me, I think it’s really important for them to be in across different year levels, so the old school, what we used to call composite, I think it’s really important. I think there’s kids have role models of the older ones. They can look up to the older ones. The older ones have a sense of responsibility and leadership to the younger ones. But in the real world, we never really interact with people our own age. It’s really only in school we expect them to function and be friends with and learn with all five-year-olds or all six-year-olds. In the real world, it’s not like that. You know, you could have friends who are 20 and you could have friends who are 55, and you work in an environment with a lot of different ages, so we need to model what the real world is in the school setting, you know, and whether you’re a straight class or whether you’re a mixed class, there’s going to be a range of academic ability. It shouldn’t matter if the teacher knows the child well and is using an assessment and is teaching to their next point of need, it shouldn’t matter whether they’re in a straight class or whether they’re in a mixed class, their learning should be catered for. But I think it brings something different to have different age groups together. But what I would say is talk to the school about why they have chosen that, and it may or may not agree with how you sit as a family and what you want as a family, but it’s worth asking the question because there could be reasons behind it. When I was in primary school, it was kind of like there was two classes of grade ones, there were two classes of grade twos, and then, “Oh, there’s not enough to make a, you know, a third of each, we’ll put them together.” It’s certainly not designed like that in most schools anymore, and it’s worth asking the school why they have it structured that way, and then consider that, you know, when you’re deciding whether it is for you and your child or whether it isn’t for you and your child.
Crystal: And the other thing is, you know, I think in a—that maybe has 20, 30, 40 in a year level rather than 100, there’s a greater opportunity for engagement, for leadership, for opportunity because there’s less kids who are participating in it. You know, some kids find it very overwhelming to put their hand up and ask to, “I want to be that leader,” or “I want to do that,” but in a smaller setting where they know them better, that creates a bit of confidence too, which is really good. And you know, I sometimes hear families say, “Oh, well, they’ve got to go to the big state school because, you know, they’ll have more friends to play with.” Kids make friends, you know? Kids have always got friends to play with, they’re always engaged, that’s more of a—that’s a parent perspective, “Oh, they may not have a friend, I want to give them as many opportunities to make friends as they can.” The flip side of that is if the child—some children find that quite challenging to walk out into a yard of a year level of 100 and say, “How am I going to ask to play?” because there’s a group of 50 playing or there’s a group of 20 playing tag, how do I engage with that, you know. Whereas in that smaller setting, they’ve got more confidence to go and engage and participate. So, you know, asking about that and asking how the kids get along with each other. Don’t just assume bigger is better, I think is my thing, and sometimes it is for some children, bigger is better, but for most children, I think erring on that smaller side is really important, especially the little ones. They leave their kinder and their home nest, and this is the first time they’re in the big wide world. You can be in the big wide world of 26, or you can be in the big wide world of 15, you know, for that first step out. You’re certainly getting more targeted teaching when you’re in a smaller class of, you know, the teacher’s 1 to 15. You can get to kids and move them along and know where they’re at better in their learning than 1 to 26. So that’s just something to think about as well.
Crystal: So what, when you say like big versus small, so a small class would be 15, so would you say like an average size class or a small size class would be say 18 to 20?
Kasey: I mean, I think they sort of—most schools try not to have more than about 22, 24 in a prep sort of class. I still think that’s pretty big for their first year, but it also depends on the school and the structure that they have set up for classrooms. It depends on space, so there’s a lot of—you know, every, as I said before, with the academics, every school has a reason for what they’re doing and I think probably the message to families is don’t just assume it’s not going to work for your child, ask the questions, you know, why do you have your classes set up like that, why is your class size like this, what opportunities does my child have to participate, and let that be the guide. Don’t just jump on the website or the my schools and go, “Oh, there’s only this many kids,” or “Oh my gosh, there’s that many kids, it’s not going to work.” Don’t be led by the numbers, be led by the experience when you’re in the school and talking to the people who are there every day with your children.
Crystal: Yeah, that makes sense, and I think it can be a bit of a contentious issue, like different people have very strong opinions about small schools or big schools.
Kasey: Yeah.
Crystal: But I think you’ve got to do what’s right for your child.
Kasey: Exactly. And I have taught in both, you know, and you can make all that feeling and that connection in both school, both sizes, don’t get me wrong, but I think the bottom line is you know your child, but don’t just assume that they need something without asking the question. The other thing would be take your child with you—
Crystal: Really?
Kasey: —to the tours, actually. But that’s another thing. You know, I think not that a child should determine, “I like this school, Mummy, because it’s got chickens,” or whatever it might be. Of course, you as the adult is going to decide, you know, what is the best learning environment for them.
Crystal: I find that funny because that’s exactly what my daughter would say, “That’s—I want to go there, they’ve got chickens.”
Kasey: Yep, yep. You know, so, but you know, they’re the ones who are going to be there. It also gives you a view as to how people engage with your child before they start to, you know, are they, are they talking to the kid, your child as well? Are they, you know, the kids when they go into the classroom, you know, and it also gives the school an impression of, “Oh, that child seems maybe a little bit shy, you know, I might need to bring them out of their shell,” and just things like that. I think it’s really important for the child to be there, not that they probably have a voice in the decision, but they’ve experienced the school, and they’ll know as well. They’ll still say, “Oh, I like that school, Mummy,” or “I like that school.” You know, and that does have—that should have some impact because they’re the ones who are going to have to go there every single day. I’m not for, you know, four-year-olds making their educational decision, but, you know, I think them being there is—is a good feel too.
Crystal: Makes sense. Yeah. Was there anything else that we haven’t spoken about that…?
Kasey: No, I don’t think so. You know, I think it’s, it’s, it’s a big decision for a family.
Crystal: It is.
Kasey: It’s huge. It’s probably the first big decision you make for your child to enter them into the big wide world, you know, and they are going to be there for a long time. So it’s just about go get that feel for the school, look at how the kids are, the kids happy? Are they engaged? Are the school welcoming? You know, talk to families. Sometimes being at drop-off or pickup, being around that time for a tour is good too. Sometimes tours are designed to be later so that people can park and drop-off’s done, but, you know, talking to families as well is a really good feel for what the school is, because you know what the name the school had in the community 10 years ago doesn’t mean it is what it is now, or if one of your friends went there when they were a kid, it’s completely different—different principal, different staff, different cohort of kids can really change the culture of a school. So I suppose in summing up, don’t do too many schools, talk to people who are there, look at how the kids are engaging in their learning with their teacher in the classroom, and it really does come down to that vibe and that feel that you get around that school. You know, worst case, they’re not stuck there forever. If you think, “I’ve done the wrong thing,” you talk to the school, you know, you try and support them, but if it doesn’t end up being the right place, you’re not stuck there, you know, you’ve always got a choice and you can always make a change if it didn’t, you know, if it didn’t work the way you wanted it to or it just didn’t give what your child needs. You know, as your child settles and I always say it’s about grade one, it just kind of clicks with the kids, you know? Prep, they’re just taking it all in and it’s all quite disjointed, and grade one, it kind of clicks, and if it’s not clicking, that’s where you need to support the child with their intervention and their learning or their social skills or whatever it might be. But if it doesn’t work out, that’s okay, you know? Just have that open communication, have, ask the school to put plans in place and to trial things and to keep talking to you, and then you make the decision based on where they’re at when they’re at it. I think that’s really important.
Crystal: Gosh, parenting is hard. Got to make all these huge decisions.
Kasey: Super hard, you know, and then I know families make decisions too, like, “Oh, my next child’s going to secondary school, it’ll be easier for drop-off,” or, you know, sometimes one school is right for both children and, you know, don’t—you don’t have to choose one element and the other one miss out, you know? You can work out ways to do both, and, you know, number one, you’re advocating for your child and you’re making the best decision for your child as you can. And don’t ever second guess yourself, you know? Ask the questions, being engaged and acknowledge it’s hard, and then, you know, but the school will give you that feel as to whether it’s the right fit for you.
Crystal: Yeah. All right, great. Well, thank you, Kasey. I think that’s been pretty comprehensive. Like, I think we’ve covered a lot in this conversation. Hopefully, it’s helpful to some families who are looking for schools.
Kasey: Yeah, hopefully. And, you know, we just know that parents are there and they’re advocating for their child, and we acknowledge and support that, and we know it’s a hard gig, you know, and we’re here as a school to support families in their journey as well.
Crystal: Thank you, Kasey. Thanks so much for spending your time with me.
Kasey: No problem, thanks, Crystal.
Crystal: Thanks for joining me on this podcast. Remember that the content that you hear on this podcast is of a general nature and should not be used to make any decisions about schools or anything else. If you want to learn more about schools in Melbourne, make sure you visit the website www.melbourneschools.com. You can also join thousands of other parents in our community at Melbourne Schools Discussion Group on Facebook. See you there.
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